Episode 14: For PRIDE month I speak with three queer Asian Americans about how to navigate difficult conversations with family when it comes to their queer identities. You’ll hear some personal stories and you’ll hear from SEWA-AIFW as well. The music throughout this episode is the instrumental music of “Me Nyuam Hmoob” by Chuefeng Yang.
Guests: Chuefeng Yang, Angela Lathanavaly, Mubina Qureshi
Yoko Vue: Hello everyone, welcome back to New Narratives: dispatches from Minnesota that highlight the stories of Asian America. My name is Yoko Vue and I’m the storyteller intern for Asian American Organizing Project.
I’ve been seeing the Youtube ad that has Halsey’s catchy song “I’m Coming Out” all over for PRIDE month. And as I was researching for this episode I learned about a new term from an article on Refinery29, “Inviting In.” So welcome and I invite you to listen to this episode featuring Chuefeng Yang, Angela Lathanavaly, and Mubina Qureshi. I spoke with them about what it’s like navigating different and sometimes difficult conversations with family in relation to being LGBTQ+.
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Chuefeng Yang: Yeah, so I’m Chuefeng, Chuefeng Yang. I use she, her, and hers pronouns. I am queer, transgender, and Asian. Specifically, I’m Hmong. And I am a singer and songwriter.
Yoko: You may recognize Chuefeng from a previous episode for Trans Visibility Day when I spoke with her about her song “Me Nyuam HMoob,” which was released in April. The lyrics in that song speak to her experience of being Hmong and queer.
Chuefeng: Because my identities intersect like that, it’s a very very complex experience. And in the music video, it tells that story of coming out and being transgender. And the lyrics tell the story of, how do I honor myself and who I am and my people and my culture? And how do I hold both things simultaneously? Because I am the type of person where I’m like, I can have it all. Because it all means so much to me. And I think that’s the hardest part, like I said earlier. People were like, “Oh, you’re queer, you’re trans, that’s not what Asian people do. That’s not what Hmong people do. And I’m like, “But I am Hmong.” And I will always be Hmong. I think the hardest part is, again, holding both of those things, holding my people holding my culture and holding my identities, and constantly having to display and demonstrate that I exist in both spaces at once. So last month was AAPI month and I did a lot of things there and now it’s Pride Month, and I’m still here. I’m still here because I am both.
Yoko: The intersection of being Hmong and queer makes Chuefeng’s experiences a bit different from stories we hear and see in mainstream media.
Chuefeng: It’s been, it’s been a lot of ups and downs. I think one of the best things I learned to do was set boundaries. And there’s this quote by a certain somebody, these are not my words; but there’s this quote where it’s like, boundaries are the place where I can love you and love myself. And so I had to learn how to set boundaries with, not my parents per se, but my relatives and my family of this is who I am and if you’re not okay with that, I don’t need you to be. You don’t need to be okay with it and I would appreciate it if you can respect my identity, and If you can’t, then we can’t be in each other’s lives. It’s been also a lot of navigating queer and transphobia in the Asian American community, specifically the Hmong community, it’s so bad. And it’s hard because we grow up with this teaching, we’re taught to respect our elders. And I’m gonna be honest, a lot of times, the elders are the one who say the most queer and transphobic stuff to me. And I’m like, I can’t respect you as an elder, if you don’t respect me, as a younger being, as your grandkid, or as your niece, I can’t respect you. And just being firm in that, and recognizing that, yes I do have a deep compassion for my family and my people. And I also have a deep compassion for myself. And so far, it’s been working, the boundaries are working.
Yoko: I found this really amazing because as a Hmong-American woman, I know how difficult it is to set boundaries so I love that Chuefeng has been able to find a way that works for her. And that includes deleting people from her Facebook.
Chuefeng: You know Facebook is really big in the Hmong community. So I just purged my Facebook not too long ago of all the people who I no longer talk to or don’t want to talk to. And I think for my family, my parents specifically, the hardest part right now is normalizing it. Because, at least in my experience, like you said coming out, the moments of coming out is what we all ever focus on. But nobody talks about the before and after. And now I’m in the after. And part of the after is normalizing. Normalizing me in women’s clothing normalizing me and Hmong clothes for women. And it’s normalizing that, and having long hair and it’s been very interesting, I guess, is the word I’ll use. Because I can tell my family is trying to normalize it internally within themselves. And I can still tell, especially for my parents, they still have this idea and this image of me, and what I was supposed to be when I was 23 versus what I really am. So yeah, it’s just a lot of patience. I think that’s how I can sum it up.
Yoko: Chuefeng shared with me one of the first conversations she had with her parents in relation to her identity as a trans woman.
Chuefeng: I think the first one is the conversation about hormones and surgeries. You know, and I– like not all trans folks want to go through hormones or go through surgery and that’s totally valid. For me, I do, just so I feel more complete in my body. And having that conversation of, it’s what I want to do for my body so I feel complete. And, you know, my parents being parents, they’re very much like, “Okay, and what are like, what are the risks? What are the risks of hormones? What are the risks of surgery?” Because it’s not like, it’s not gonna be like a small surgery. I’m changing, changing something really big. And that’s a conversation that we have a lot. They want me to be safe, and they don’t want me to grow up and get old and then have all these complications.
Yoko: Aside from normalizing physical changes, the language they use is also changing.
Chuefeng: So like, identity-based language. So yeah, and having that conversation a lot of I’m not a “tub,” I’m a “ntxhais” and it’s not even really a conversation. It’s more like I’ll just correct them. They’ll be like, “Oh, tub los no.” And I’m like, ” Mmm ntxhais.” If you don’t say “ntxhais,” I’m not coming. But yeah, even that, obviously, it’s like– again, they refer to me as a son, as a “tub” for 22 years. It’s a habit now and habits are hard to break. So I’m still giving them that compassion of, it’s a habit, I understand that. It takes time. And I think for me what really matters is that I see them trying. And that’s what matters to me. It’s not going to be 100% correct all the time, but at least they’re trying.
Yoko: It has been three years living in a pandemic so I was curious how it impacted Chuefeng.
Chuefeng: I think it has. The pandemic has made it easier and harder in different ways. So it makes it easier, because of COVID, If I don’t want to be in spaces with people who don’t respect me, I don’t have to. Yeah, it makes that easier. It makes protecting my peace and protecting myself a lot easier. I think where it gets harder is, like you said finding community and building these relationships in person.
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Yoko: Like Chuefeng who came out twice to her family, Angela also did some exploring before getting to where they are now.
Angela Lathanavaly: Hi, so my name is Angela Lathanavaly and I identify as a woman. My pronouns are they/them, it’s what’s most comfortable to me. I’m Thai Laotion and identify as lesbian. Honestly, there were big signs when I grew up. Fun fact my, I guess, gay awakening as a child was when I was seven, and I was at my friend’s house, and I saw the movie Jasmine and we were watching Aladdin basically. And Jasmine came on with her red outfit, and again, I was seven and I was like, “Oh my God, that woman is hot.” I just realized, growing up more and more, I became more self-aware of myself. And I guess I just realized, “Oh I don’t want to be that person or I don’t want to be big friends with that person. I want to date that person.” And honestly growing up I just realized, “Oh, I like women.” And when you’re a kid growing up in the 2000s in the early 2010s, it’s a thing where LGBTQ characters aren’t present in a lot of shows. So I didn’t realize that you could like women and or you’re allowed to like women. And I realized, I guess I’m bisexual.
Yoko: However sexual identity and orientation are fluid and through self-exploration, Angela felt that they identified differently.
Angela: After years, I guess, of identifying as bisexual, I came to the conclusion that it’s just not a part of me. I don’t feel anything. And I had to sit down and talk to my mom like, “Hey, I think I just like all women and non-binary people.” And she actually was really understanding. And, of course, she asked me a lot of questions like “So you’re not going to have a husband in the future?” And I was like, “No.” And just asking me general questions and they weren’t negative remarks or anything.
Yoko: This was a great moment with their mom, to be able to tell someone they love and express who they are; and a moment to be celebrated.
Angela: For me, I remember coming out as lesbian and then waking up the next day, and I felt like a weight was off of my shoulder. I remember rushing to a website just to buy a pride flag and when it came, it made me like the happiest person and it’s hung up in my room. All bright and pretty. And every morning I wake up to it and I look at it and I just get reminded like, “Hey, you are who you are, and you gotta love yourself for that.” And it just made me feel like I was finally able to accept myself and it didn’t matter if other people accepted me. As long as I love myself I was there for myself. That’s what matters in the end.
Yoko: I wanted to know from Angela what would’ve been helpful through this journey of understanding their sexual identity, especially being Southeast Asian.
Angela: A lot of it’s gonna be emotional support. And I think in general, Asian parents tend to not be the most mentally or emotional supportive. For me, being Thai Laotian, and also identifying as lesbian is one of those things that tend to clash together. I come from an immigrant family that’s still trying to open up and still trying to understand society in the world in general, outside of what they knew from Thailand and from Laos. And whenever, for instance, whenever I go to temples, I have to take my septum out even though it’s the way that I express myself, I might have to decrease my makeup, take my septum out, and I can’t act queer you can say, I have to act perfect and polished. And it’s one of those things that’s a little bit degrading, I guess, because it’s– I can’t be myself. And even though to someone else a septum might be really important or be not important at all, to me, it mattered to me because it felt like it was a part of myself.
Yoko: Angela was involved in a variety of high school activities including cross country, where the responses varied.
Angela: When I first came out, I also came out to my cross country group. I was the manager for my cross country group in sophomore year, and that experience was really just life-changing. We’re talking about a group of people that are closed-minded and people that don’t really know people that don’t look like them, people that don’t think like them. So when it came up to them, I was like, “Hey guys, I’m lesbian,” and a lot of people were supportive. But there are these two people that just right off the bat, I could tell, did not agree with my identity. One person was telling me how she was looking for a roommate. And mind you, I was a sophomore in high school, so I wasn’t sure why she was telling me this. But she said she was looking for a roommate. And she sent me screenshots of her denying her roommate because her roommate was bisexual. And to me, that felt like a little bit of like a stab in the back of being like, so you don’t support me, but you don’t want to openly say it.
And the other person just said that I was confused. And that I scared him a little bit, well he was scared of me and just me. Being like, oh, no, a gay person in the cross country team, what will I do? And it was just one of those things. I was like I am who I am. And I’m the same person you were talking to 10 minutes ago, but you’re just now finding out. So people will curve the conversation or people will be like– people treat you like you’re a completely different person after you come out. But it’s like, I’m the same person that I was 10 minutes ago. And I’m the same person I was yesterday when you were talking to me. And it’s just the one fact that they learn when you come out, it suddenly changes everything. And it’s like, it shouldn’t change everything. I’m still the same person.
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Yoko: I spoke with Mubina from SEWA – Asian Indian Family Wellness to learn about the South Asian Queer League.
Mubina Qureshi: Hi, this is Mubina Qureshi and I use she and they pronouns. The identities, that’s a very complicated thing for immigrants, refugees, and asylees in the United States. For me, I’m an immigrant, a queer Muslim, and a survivor of racial as well as gender-based violence and religion-based violence back in my country in India. So, one very solid reason of having this support group is the intersectionality that people can share and feel associated with others who are coming with those shared intersectional identities that also include lower caste and lower class issues, also immigration issues.
It’s a hard process for individuals who come with intersectional identities. And the whole set of difficulties with people who are born and raised here, the conflict between cultural upbringing in the house versus the world outside their homes it’s very complicated for folks to navigate through all those emotions and all those identities when they are identifying as a non-heterosexual person. So this support group gives this authentic space for them to be with others who are sharing the similar identities and intersectionalities. So, I think that’s where the importance of such community based and exclusive group, support groups are very important to create and sustain.
Yoko: Like many spaces for marginalized identities, they have to be created by us and this type of support or flourish group is new and growing.
Mubina: So in Midwest, we never had any exclusive support group before 2020, and when I joined this nonprofit organization, that was the first thing– I was searching online and couldn’t find any specific group exclusive group for brown folks and Desi folks who come from India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, Bhutan, and all the South Asian regions, global south regions, I would say. So we inaugurated this support group and particularly this programming for South Asian, trans, non-conforming, and LGBTQ plus identifying individuals that have offers wraparound services, including mental health support, healthcare disparity, solutions, culturally and linguistically specific emotional support, and a lot of healing sessions with using music and art and food and all the cultural aspects, which is very holistic and nature. So, yeah, that’s our programming for South Asian folks who identify as queer and LGBTQ plus individuals.
Yoko: I wanted to know from Mubina what’s something that’s been rewarding as this space has been coming to life over the past two years.
Mubina: We inaugurated, we had our first in-person support group meeting in February 2020. And in March 2020, we had literally the entire world went to virtual because of COVID-19 virus and so I remember from two people, like five people who agreed to meet in person after so much hesitation, because in culture, people do not, people are not encouraged to seek help and support. So, it was really very overwhelming for folks to come out and meet in person with people look like themselves and speak like themselves. So in February, instead of five people, we just met with two folks. And then next month, because of pandemic, and because of the virtual setting, we actually had five, seven people joining the meeting. And since then we have been meeting virtually
And I have seen folks from January or– February 2020. I was in contact with a few folks back in 2020 and now I’m seeing them, so very proud of themselves. So very thriving, and having the confidence of having community around; that gives me this feeling of pride and joy, that, okay, we could create a space, a safe space for folks to join and talk about cultural issues, and systemic racism against people of color in Minnesota, all of those things. So I think– I mean, I feel really very proud of creating that space. And it’s not hierarchical. So all the folks who join in, they have their own ways of talking, sharing, and sharing the space. There is no one asking them to speak or express themselves in a particular way. So it’s a very big, open free space for folks.
Yoko: Mubina mentioned before our recorded conversation that the concept of coming out is western, I asked her to elaborate more on this.
Mubina: One thing that I always love talking about is the language and jargon. Our languages are very gendered and our cultural languages have very limited vocabulary to express different identities, so when you try to explain that to the older generation, it becomes very difficult. Here there are a lot of terms, a lot of different, you know, definitions of different tags and all of that. And folks feel very pressurized to come out because they’re white friends and you know, non community or culturally specific community friends, they push them for coming out. And because the way you are showing yourself that automatically itself is like really self-explanatory that you belong to LGBTQ plus community or you are not heterosexual or heteronormative. So, it is very westernized concept to be coming out on social media, and in families, all of that. That I personally believe, I never felt like coming out because people know that– they understand. It’s that deliberate ignorance that people do not want to recognize you as, that is the more problematic issue.
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Yoko: As we come to the end of the episode, I want to leave you with some last words from our guests.
Mubina: So one advice, I always give to folks that take your time, your life and your mental health is more important than your coming out. Of course, nobody should be living in a closet. But as we know, our communities can get violent, and the family relationships can harm individuals very badly. So just take care of yourself and try to take care of your mental health first. You are valid, your identity is valid, the way you express yourself is valid. So we are here, those who are open and out and loud.
Angela: So I started posting Tiktoks for people to be able to relate to and a lot of my comments are also like, “Oh my gosh, you’re from Minnesota, I didn’t know that.” And I find it enjoyable, being able to be a representative for people, especially Asian American lesbians. There’s not too many of us and in our own communities, we also know being LGBTQ isn’t seen as the best thing. So I like to come forward, I like to be out loud and proud. And be a hand for someone else to hold and to pull them through on their journeys and stuff. I like for people to see what it’s like if they were out and proud, basically, and just being representative.
Chuefeng: If you’re listening to this, and you are a queer Asian person, just know, I love you. And you’re so valid. And again, you can be both. You can be both unapologetically and openly.
Yoko: I hope that this month has been filled with celebration and joy. As we move forward, may we fight for bigger changes to keep our LGBTQ+ folks safe and loved. Special thank you to the lovely guests that I spoke with: Mubina, Angela, and Chuefeng. You’ve been listening to the instrumental version of “Me Nyuam HMoob” by Chuefeng Yang. Make sure to check out the full song on Youtube or Spotify.
This episode is written, edited, and produced by your host Yoko Vue, Storyteller Intern at Asian American Organizing Project. More information about AAOP can be found at our website aaopmn.org. Thank you for listening and see you next time!
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