In this special bonus episode of New Narratives, a companion to our mixed race Asian identity-focused episode “We Are What We Are,” documentary filmmaker serena (they/them) and AAOP Content Creator Intern and New Narratives co-host Siena (she/her) talk about both their experiences growing up mixed, the complex positionality of being mixed race with white, and, fittingly for May and Asian Heritage Month, how it might be possible to pass on heritage traditions and values as burgeoning mixed race mentors and potential future mixed race parents.
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Siena Iwasaki Milbauer: Hello and welcome to a special bonus episode of New Narratives. My name is Siena, I use she/her pronouns, and I’m the Content Creator Intern at Asian American Organizing Project, also known as AAOP, a Twin Cities based nonprofit run by youth and for you. Today’s special episode is a companion to our most recent New Narratives episode 12, “We Are What We Are,” all about mixed race Asian identity. Recently, I had the chance to sit down with serena, a mixed race Asian American documentary filmmaker and former AAOP staff member. serena is someone I really admire and it was a joy to share a conversation with them about both our experiences growing up mixed and coming to terms with our identity, the complex positionality of being mixed race with white, and fittingly for May and Asian Heritage Month, how we might pass on heritage traditions and values as burgeoning mixed race mentors and potential future mixed race parents. Let’s dive in.
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Siena: So to start off, if you would just, like, introduce yourself. So name, pronouns, your mix if you are comfortable, and then just sort of a general self intro with any info that you want to include.
serena: My name is serena Violet Hodges. I use they/them pronouns. I am mixed South Asian and white, and I currently am working as a documentary cinematographer based between Minneapolis and Los Angeles.
Siena: That’s like the coolest job description ever! So the first question that I have is just what is your relationship, if you have a relationship, with the term mixed? In terms of like, when did you hear it? Is that a term that you identify with? And if you do have particular feelings about it, have those evolved over the years? You know, have there been different points where you’ve felt differently about the word?
serena: My mom has her PhD in world and US history, so growing up a lot of my context for race and immigration histories was, like, under this academic, right, yeah. And so I think that was good and bad, right? Because it gave me language to talk about my mixed race identity and race in general. And I think I went through this phase in high school where I was just, you know, checking out all of these books and DVDs from the library, and like, tried to kind of contextualize my identity. But I think that that also, I don’t know, kind of, when it comes to talking about my feelings about it, I come from this, like, intellectualized perspective. So I think that, like, having a language was great, but then it also sort of took away my fully feeling and experiencing the day to day of it.
Siena: Totally. Yeah, it’s like you, you don’t have that intuitive relationship with it. Because you already have this intellectual framework.
serena: Yeah, totally.
Siena: That makes total sense. I feel like I had kind of the opposite. Where like, I had no language to understand. Like, I had nothing. And so every time I would run into a word, I’d be like, people think about this stuff? Like what?
serena: There’s a word for what I’m feeling?!?
Siena: I’m like, what, that’s weird! But I feel like it’s definitely pros and cons of either because I, like, yearned for that language. But I can see what you mean about, like, not necessarily, when you’re handed a framework for how to think about that experience, you can’t really come up with your own description of what you’re experiencing specifically.
serena: Mm hmm. Totally.
Siena: That makes total sense. Okay, so you kind of touched on this with your mom already. But one of the things is, in personal experience, being mixed can really affect family dynamics. So whether that’s with your parents, extended family, significant others, anything like that. So I’m curious, like, what your experience has been with how mixed-ness has played into your family dynamics?
serena: Yeah, I think I’m really lucky to have my sister and like, be really close to her. Because even though we have different experiences, within our families of our mixed race identities, we can still sort of, like, reflect together. And I guess for me growing up, we had our grandparents lived on literally, like, blocks from each other. So every Friday we would go to my maternal, Indian grandparents’ apartment, and then we would walk over to, like, my dad, my white grandparents place. And I feel like that alone was, it always felt like such a stark difference, like you literally feel the culture shift. Just in like, when you go to my Indian grandparents, they would make any meal, any sweets, all the Chai, anything that I love, like they would be, they would display it for us, right? Like they would have it out and ready. And that was, like, one of the main gathering points for us. And then, you know, with my paternal grandparents, it was like we went over, we sat in the living room, and we had some small talk.
Siena: Some good old Midwestern small talk!
serena: Exactly! And, you know, I think there’s also a lot of similarities too, but I think, as an 11 year old, you can feel that difference. And in that way, I sort of gravitated towards my South Asian side. I think it was a different experience for my sister, because like, physicality wise, my grandparents always said I was the sibling that looked most South Asian. So I think in that way, they treated me differently, too. So that was also part of my experience, and probably the reason why I gravitated towards them. Because, again, as a young person, when you have family members saying, “Oh, you’re one of us, you look like us,” that’s how, that’s where I’m going to feel the most open, or myself. But, I mean, it could have been my white grandparents too, that said that, and maybe I would have felt closer to them. You know? So I think that when it comes to family dynamics, that was, my relationship with my grandparents was a big part of it.
Siena: Yeah, for sure. No, I relate to what you said about, like, how you’re perceived or, like, how that can affect if you relate more closely to one side or the other. Because I feel like where I’m at now physicality wise, I’m that dreaded word, ethnically ambiguous. But when I was a kid, I was read very much as Asian. And so like I was, or usually I was read as my mother’s daughter. It was always like, “Oh, you look so much like your mom,” you know, “you act so much like your mom.” And so I think that definitely shaped my conception of myself growing up. And like, to a certain extent, that still stays with me. Which is interesting, because unlike you, I didn’t really have a connection with my mom’s side of the family. I did not meet them in any significant way until I was older. But just, like, by being close to her, and like, by having that interaction, it was like, yeah, obviously, I’m Japanese! But no, that’s definitely part of it. Yeah, so that leads directly into the next question, so just this idea that people’s conceptions of race and ethnicity are often really, really physical and tied to particular physical traits and characteristics. And I think this can play a really big role, in how, you know, mixed folks are framed by others, but also by ourselves. So I’m curious, like, how mixed-ness and physicality has interacted in your particular experience?
serena: Yeah, like I said, it’s specifically with my relationship with my sister. And her sharing her experience of like, also being straight up told, like, “Oh, you don’t look as Indian” and I think, yeah, being invalidated in that way. Because in the same vein, she wasn’t necessarily accepted by her white peers or her white counterparts. So it’s not like she really fit in there too. So like, I mean, it was the same way for me too right? But the difference was, I was still being told or validated in that other part of me, so it was like, I think I was able to be more comfortable with my mixed-ness because I was like, okay, I may not be fitting in either of these communities, in my day to day with my peers, but like when it comes to my family, I feel connected in some way to this side.
Siena: Totally. The next question is about language, which sort of similar to physicality, I feel like speaking or not speaking or being connected to a heritage language can really factor into folks, like, conception of how close they are to a particular culture, or close to a part of their mix they are. And same thing goes with names. So basically, just like your experience with language and mixed-ness, whether that’s, like, with speaking an actual language or just like in terms of names that you carry or names that folks around you carry.
serena: Yeah, I think that is really big. I didn’t grow up speaking the language. And even my mother, like her class in India was, like she went to English medium schools, you know. So she speaks the language, but even in her home country, like, she’s actually not that comfortable speaking Hindi and even her mother tongue Bengali. So I think when she came here, she never really spoke to us. Because honestly, like, she was pretty comfortable with English. And so, when I’ve gone back to visit family in India, like I remember the most recent time, I went summer of 2019. I just remember thinking like, the next time I come back here, I have to know the language, at least conversationally, because like, I know my extended family is talking shit right now! And I need to come back and, you know what I’m saying, just feel more integrated and comfortable. Like, quite honestly, it’s like, you know, not fair to them either, because it’s like…So, I still have yet to, like, make do on that promise. But I think, also when you talk about names, do you mean like my name serena? Or?
Siena: Yeah, I mean, when I was talking with folks as I was sort of putting together these questions, we were talking about just the idea that like, obviously heritage languages and being able to speak that, but also like, if you’re named something that has a clear connection to a particular heritage culture, that can influence how people perceive you and how they receive you in certain spaces.
serena: Yeah. The language and the name thing is twofold for me too, because… So, my most recent project I was on, we were following a bunch of Bollywood fusion dance teams.
Siena: Very cool!
serena: Yeah, so it was really, really fun. But we were following this all boys team, and most of them spoke their family’s language, had very obvious South Asian names. And it took until, we were following them for like three months, and it took until like the last three weeks. We were filming this Holi event and usually, I’m behind the camera, but I was like, you know, there was a song that came on that I knew. And I knew all the words and I knew the dance from the film. And they say me do that and they were like “what, how do you know this?” And I’m like, I’m Indian! And they were just like, “what?!?” Their minds were blown. And they were like, “your name is serena though.” And I’m like, I’ve met two or three, like, visibly South Asian people, like, you know, both their mom and dad is South Asian and their names are Serena. And I said that. But that was one of the things that they said, like, “but your name is serena, wait, what?” They were just like so blown away and I don’t know if part of it was because I was wearing a mask too. But it was just like this moment where like, things clicked. And then there were some moments during filming where, like, they would say a word in Hindi that I wouldn’t know the meaning of. And so that was the second thing they said when I told them I was Indian, they’re like well, “how did you now know”, it was a swear word so I won’t say it, but “how did you not know what that meant?” And I’m like, oh, I guess I know like two swear words in Hindi, but one of them wasn’t the one you said…
Siena: Not that one!
serena: So, yeah!
Siena: Yeah, for sure. No, I totally relate to what you said about family because I haven’t actually been to Japan yet to visit my family there. But I’m currently, I finally have had the opportunity now that I’m in college to learn Japanese, so I’m in like, my first complete year of study.
serena: Awesome!
Siena: And like, that is my number one goal is to be proficient enough that when I go over there, I can actually, like, communicate with them without having to fully rely on my mom. I mean, it’s kind of daunting to get, like I’m with my teacher and it’s like we’re reading picture books. Like, try not to, like, hammer home that I’m literally at a kindergartner reading level right now! It’s okay, one step at a time! So the next question is about, like, mixed community. My impression is that this is a fairly new concept at all, like just the idea that there can be community among mixed race folks, or that that is something that people are seeking. So I’m curious, like, what your experiences have been, if you have tried to find mixed community, is that something that is appealing to you? And if you have had that experience, what has it been like? Has it been positive? Negative?
serena: Yeah, totally. Um, so I was also pretty lucky in high school, because even though I went to a predominantly white school, I went to like this conference for students of color that go to private schools. And it’s like a national conference, and I went my junior year. So when I was like 16. And within that conference, they have like affinity groups, and one of them was mixed race. And so I met, like, just imagine a big conference room, like full of mixed kids that go to predominantly white schools. You know, I mean, like, we were just sharing a lot of experiences verbatim, you know, that we had. And I think that was huge for me. And part of it is because I’m read as non-white, that I went back to my high school, and I started a student of color affinity group. And so again, even though, like, we had different mixed identities, different iterations of our mixed-ness, like, in like a white institutional context we all had very similar experiences. And so just having that space and creating that space, was really validating for me. And I think as time has gone on, I don’t know, I don’t know if it’s…do I have any mixed friends?
Siena: The great question that you get to ask yourself!
serena: Hmm, yeah. I think and then, as time has gone on, I don’t know if it’s something that I’ve actively sought. Or actively reflect on much anymore. But I think it’s important to, you know. And I think it’s important to with each other, you know, because I have a lot of friends of color, Black and brown folks. And I think that there’s a certain cringiness that I feel when mixed folks start to talk about their experience in that context. Because, specifically being mixed with white, right. So, we hold like a level of privilege, that I’m like, okay, carving out mixed identity spaces is important in these ways. Because as mixed people of color it’s like, it is the same but it’s different.
Siena: It’s complicated, and definitely that recognition of, especially like you said, like, with white mixes. Like, there is a level of privilege that comes with that, where like, some of the conversations that I think it makes sense to feel compelled to have as someone who might hold that identity, aren’t the kind of conversations you should be having and POC spaces or BIPOC spaces. So like having your own space to have, you know, again, like perfectly valid discussions, but not co-opting someone else’s space.
serena: Totally. Great way to put it.
Siena: I know what you mean. Yeah, no, it was funny that you asked yourself, like, do I have mixed friends? Because I, like, asked myself that question once, and, like, in front of my mom. And my mom was like, “your best friend is mixed!” And I was like, yeah, he is! But I never thought of it that way! I have a best friend, since like third grade, and like, I just didn’t think of it as yeah, we’re both mixed. It’s like, we’re friends. I’m just like, yeah, that’s my friend. And my mom is like, “you dummy! Yes you do!” But sometimes, yeah, sometimes it just slips your mind. And I think that we all hold so many different identities, we’re not going to be like checking the box for every interaction that we have.
serena: Totally.
Siena: So, I was always just like, that big moment of non-self awareness.
serena: Like, they’re right there!
Siena: Right there! So the final question that I have is just, either from a personal or a broader perspective, what are your hopes for the future of, like, mixed race Asian identity or solidarity, or just like mixed race identity and solidarity in general?
serena: I think this sort of ties into the last question of what I was saying. And that like, I think it’s really important to be aware of our identity in predominantly, like, BIPOC spaces. And that our conversations are complex and specific, like really specific. And I think, like even within us, within the big realm of mixed-ness, just being able to reflect in a way that doesn’t cause more harm or also invalidate other folks’ experiences. I think that’s kind of general. But…
Siena: No, that’s a good hope for the future. Yeah, so that is the final question that I have. Is there anything, before I stop the recording, is there anything that we didn’t touch on that you feel like you want to talk about? Or that you feel like it should be included?
serena: I don’t know. I think just on, like a personal, maybe a little vulnerable note, but like something that I think about a lot is, like, what am I gonna have to pass on to, like, the next generation. Whether those be like mentees, or children. Like, I feel like I’m starting to enter this phase of my life where I’m thinking about parenthood. And, and like, I don’t know. I guess I’m just posing that, because it’s something I’ve really been reflecting on. Again, as somebody mixed with white, and like, I don’t know who my life partner is going to be, and what race they’re going to be. And yeah, again, just like mixed-ness. And the only way that I can really like, wrap my head around it, or what I tell myself is that like, mixed-ness and race, it’s, a lot of it is so perceived and physical, right.
Siena: Yeah.
serena: And so when I think about what I’m gonna pass on to my, maybe my kids or my younger folks in my life is like, all I really can is a culture of values. And like, that comes from my South Asian upbringing, and also like, things that I learned from my white family too. And that I’m able to sort of pick and choose what that is to pass on. And it doesn’t have to look like a particular way. Yeah. But I also think about it in the context of like, preserving a culture too, right? Like, you know, my mom tries really hard to like, share with us traditions.
Siena: Yeah.
serena: Things like that. So I feel like it could be both/and, hopefully.
Siena: Yeah, for sure. No, I totally relate to that. I’m one of those kids that like, has always known that I wanted to have kids eventually. And when I began to think more fulsomely about like, my own racial identity, my own cultural identity, I think that’s a natural question. It’s like you know, especially when, at least for me, I would say sometimes my connection to certain parts of my identity feels very tenuous. Right? And so I think if it’s tenuous for me, then like, what is it going to be like for someone who’s one further step removed? You know?
serena: Totally.
Siena: Right? But I think what I tend to come back to is like, I was sort of talking about this when you were sharing the experiences with physicality is like, ultimately my identity comes from my relationships with people, right? And so the reason I identify so strongly in one way is because I’m really close to my mom, right? And I predict, there’s like a 110% possibility that my mom will be a major figure in my child’s life, right? Like, that’s just how it is. And so, you know, in that respect, it feels very natural, right, that in some way there will be this, this at least cultural legacy. You know, I think race is such a, it’s not even really a thing, right? It’s a construct. It’s a made up set of ideas.
serena: It’s not real.
Siena: It’s not real! And so, that I feel like you can’t really put your finger on like, yes, this is what I’m going to pass on.
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Siena: But culture is, I think a little bit more within our hands, right? Because like you said, it’s something that is given to us by the people around us. And we in turn can give that to others and make, like a conscious decision to pass on traditions and to keep kind of leaning into that.
serena: Totally.
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Siena: Thanks so much for listening to this special episode of New Narratives. A huge thank you to serena for sharing their time and wisdom. If you’re interested in learning more about mixed race Asian identity and experiences, please visit bit.ly/3MhkQq6 for a list of resources around mixed Asian identity, including mixed race, mixed ethnicity, and interracial and transnational adoptee experiences. And of course, check out New Narratives episode 12, “We Are What We Are” and all the other New Narratives episodes for a huge array of podcast dispatches from Minnesota, highlighting the stories of Asian America. See you next time!