Siena Iwasaki Milbauer: This episode is about racial injustice and the violence that comes from that, and this can be a tough and triggering topic. We encourage listeners to prioritize their wellness, whatever that means for them.
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Siena: Welcome, I’m your host Siena Iwasaki Milbauer. I use she/her pronouns, and I’m the Content Creator Intern at Asian American Organizing Project, a youth-focused, youth-led Asian American nonpartisan nonprofit based in the Twin Cities. Usually, Anya, our Storyteller intern and I do this together. However, I’ll be taking the lead solo for the next few episodes while Anya goes on an extremely well-deserved summer hiatus. Today, we’re bringing you a new episode of our special spinoff series, New Narratives: Justice for George Floyd. Asian American Organizing Project is creating this series in partnership with Buddhist Justice Reporter, a project led by BIPOC Buddhists, looking to report on the police, criminal injustice, and the carceral state from a Buddhist lens.
As we’ve worked together, we’ve naturally spent a lot of time talking about the ways faith and organizing can and should intersect. To take a deeper dive into this topic, I spoke with Chee Ming Xiong. Chee is a Hmong American with roots in Minnesota, although he currently lives in Denver, Colorado. They have been active in Hmong 4 Black Lives work, and are also a practicing Buddhist. In fact, Chee recently took a big step in his Buddhist practice by undergoing lay ordination at Clouds in Water Zen Center in St. Paul.
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Chee Ming Xiong: My name is Chee Ming. And the anglicized version of that as I introduce myself to my “American” friends is Chee, for simplicity. Obviously, there’s a lot to that, and also I recently, about a week ago, I received my jukai name which is zokyuo, translates to ancestors bridge. And my pronouns are he/him/they.
Siena: I started by asking Chee about his involvement with Hmong for Black Lives, and what that has looked like.
Chee: So there isn’t a formal BLM Hmong group. It’s more or less informal. My introduction to the collective is through Facebook. There was a response immediately after the lynching of brother George Floyd. A response from Hmong community, at least the youngsters that I noticed, on Facebook. They came together and they started this group called Hmong 4 Black Lives. There are many other individuals who are Hmong who are also doing this work. And more or less, on the frontlines in comparison to me. In being physically, especially during the protests, especially as the community responds and needs in the Twin Cities. I still have this deep responsibility as just another being, as Dr. King says, injustice anywhere is everywhere. No matter where we are. So even here in Denver, I’m doing that work.
I’ve actually found my small community, there is actually Hmong individuals that I’ve become friends with. So we all walk our own path, in our own way. Some, at least my observation is some are more in the front. Then there are like me, speaking from my experience and my own capacity, is holding space for others. And how that looks like is being part of my small little enclave of Buddhist practitioners / meditationers. And because we are in a pandemic still, we did our best to hold virtual spaces as more things unfold, especially in last year, last months, and weeks. And just continuously hold that.
Siena: I wanted to get more into how Chee’s Buddhist faith and their social activism connect, but first, I was really struck by Chee’s use of the term “lynching” to describe Mr. Floyd’s murder. That word is incredibly loaded, full of generational trauma and agony. You can probably already hear that Chee is a deeply thoughtful person, so I felt sure there was a deliberate reason he had chosen that specific word and I asked him to elaborate.
Chee: To me, the way the policing is an extension of white supremacy. So this is the modern take of lynching. The impact is still very real. I think if we were to call it police brutality, or something else, it’s not. It is what it is. This individual’s life was taken based on their race, very explicitly. And in a police state. So, that’s how I view it. Now this is an evolutionary understanding that continues to unfold for me. In fact this language was introduced to me by a friend, doing healing work. When I first heard it, it landed quite striking. It shook me up. It definitely shook me up. I gave it some reflection especially as I was sitting in my practice, what does this mean? Why is the word lynching?
And, it is. Because we have spectators, of many forms. The idea that we as people in the thoughts and the embodiment practices of white supremacy is that we try to investigate to see if he behaved like he was supposed to behave. And so for me, it kind of checks the boxes of what a lynching event means. Now I do know this is not– I’m not too fixed, that in the next evolution, in my understanding, it could be called something else. But right now, how it has landed on me, is that this is a lynching. That we witnessed someone die based on their skin color.
Siena: Next, I asked Chee to share about his Buddhist faith: what it means to him, and what his faith journey has looked like.
Chee: I consider myself a very bad Buddhist. (laughing) In fact to call myself a Buddhist is a bit of a stretch! So I say that because there are these projections and ideas, at least for me, of what I think a Buddhist should and should not be, just like everyone else. They, as in also me, think that we are quite, reflective, pessimistic in a sense, right. And that’s so far from the truth.
I guess you could say I came into Buddhism, I came into practice, it’s always been in me. I think it’s in my bloodline, in my spiritual bloodline, not necessarily actual biology. And I guess, I’ll rewind a little bit. I was adopted into a Hmong family, I am biologically Thai. In the refugee camp in the 80s, I was adopted into my Hmong family as an infant. And I think it has something to do with that as well, this spiritual piece. Thai Buddhism has been in me all along. And then with another flavor, which is Hmong shamanism, which has its own complexity and its own gift and offering to my awareness and learning process.
And then the practice itself, I would say, didn’t really start until 3 years ago. I’ve had an on and off, hate relationship with meditation. Because, as many people, when you try to sit there, what comes up: everything. I gotta do laundry, I gotta go pick up someone, I gotta do this ot that. Or I’m so worried or concerned. I would sit there for 2 minutes and then get up and leave or whatever. It wasn’t until 4 years ago, I was in a relationship and my heart got broken. As love would have it. Love and companionship was in some ways the entry point for me to establish a practice, a formal sitting practice.
Siena: As I mentioned at the top of this episode, Chee has recently taken a big step in his Buddhist practice by undergoing lay ordination, which is a major ceremony and faith commitment. I asked Chee what that milestone meant to them.
Chee: I think on a superficial level, I think it’s cool! (laughing) It’s just– that’s what that is. However, I also believe there is some karmic conditioning there, to why we’re drawn there. There was a seed that was planted at some point, cause I could easily have been drawn to another religion and taken some sort of path. I think the decision came about, sure you can say by choice, and also at the same time I feel that it wasn’t by choice. More like you have this opportunity to train in your particular practice, and you’re here to receive it, regardless of if you want it or not.
So when the opportunity came to take classes, I did it. I did it with trepidation though, I’ll be honest, lots of resistance there. Cause I realize man I have to do work! (laughing) This is not just something you do willy nilly. This is a commitment. This commitment comes with deep responsibility to respect the process. Because I have taken these vows, and at the time I was studying them, these 16 precepts, essentially what they are to uphold Buddha, dharma, sandra, and the teachings. As much as I can, to reduce suffering on my end and in the world. So essentially, really studying them, look at them and then “Woah how is this possible. Like this is a lot.” Now I’m going to be taking a public commitment and vow to receive these and to protect these. Practice them, carry them with dignity because these are spirits, what’s been passed down for thousands of years. So I did it anyway, cause I was already deep in. I was already, as midwestern people say, what do they about the corn– Knee high by the fourth of July or something like that (laughing). I was already deep up to my knees in terms of practice. It was growing, it was a plant that was growing and growing inside of me and is continuously growing.
Siena: It is clear that faith is a very important part of Chee’s life, and their outlook on the world. So now I wanted to go full circle, and I asked Chee to talk about how his faith and his social awareness are connected.
Chee: I don’t see the two as two, necessarily. Maybe it’s a quarter and it’s just a different side of the quarter. But still has currency and value. At least in this system, this practice. In Buddhism, my understanding of it, our being in the world, there is no other. There are no dialectical things of otherness. Whatever is in front of us in our circle, of interaction, just everything, to the earth. As you may have jokingly heard, make one with all. And that’s about interconnectedness.
From the get go, the Buddha he himself– though we can’t really relate– he came from privilege, left privilege, I don’t come from privilege, I come fom poor. But he then proceeded to dismantle in some sense this hierarchy, this belief system. Challenged it. It was because of what was coming through to him. That there is this piece that we are all equal. But somehow, at least in American Buddhism, our white Buddhist siblings have detached themselves from this piece of work, this work of undoing white supremacy within Buddhism. And there’s a group of people now that I’ve been privileged to be in practice with that have named this and, for example, [Chee listing names]. And so many teachers, wonderful teachers out there.
Siena: Not only does Chee’s interconnected view of faith and activism affect his Buddhist practice, it affects how he views injustice in the world. This came through when he talked about the murder of Mr. Floyd, especially Tou Thao’s complicity in the killing.
Chee: When I saw Tou Thao , which is one of the officers, standing with his gun drawn with other officers. Who is to me a sibling, a Hmong sibling, who is standing over George Floyd, who is slipping away. Who is also standing on this earth. And what I witnessed in the images in the videos– which I tried to avoid to be honest, but it was right in front of me because of the media– but it was right in front of me. I too was standing on that same earth. I’m witnessing this. My first immediate reaction was what are you doing? There’s someone right in front of you. How could you not do anything to stop this. Do you not remember who your ancestors are? Do you not remember our parents suffering through the war because it was inflicted upon us because of this white supremacist idea of domination of the world and that’s how we ended up in the United States.
There’s so much to that, that it ties right into the very life of brother George Floyd. And many other Black brothers and sisters, Indigenous, brown, Latinx. Family members and siblings. Yes, it does concern me cause we’re all tied into it together, we are all once an infant. And somewhere we learned, were conditioned to not value human life. And it hurts me. I don’t claim to have an answer, I don’t know if anyone else has an answer, but it does hurt me. There is a thread here and that is that we are human. And that somehow the conditioning of white supremacy has made us cut ourselves away from our other siblings because of skin color or values.
Siena: A recurring theme that Chee returned too was that no matter how each person chooses to engage with the fight against white supremacy and inequality, we all have a part to play, and we all have special skills to offer our communities. For Chee, that means calling on his faith and his knowledge to offer healing spaces to others.
Chee: As unfoldings of what has happened in the last year, a need for BIPOC only space to be, just to be, has become not just desirable but it has become a need. The skill sets that I’m gaining and learning about Buddhism is applicable to holding space and being present with other people who are also traumatized. Again and again and again. So an example would be I’m part of the BIPOC meditation collective which is based in Boulder, Colorado. And we’re now virtually holding space. But that as an example, people are seeking to connect with another. Especially in this pandemic. And for BIPOC in particular, because of the last four years particularly that has surfaced what we’ve been saying all along to our white siblings. And also having access to social media and visibility of it. There is this craving, this piece of needing to be holding space for other people, where people can just come and sit and be. Be a human being together, without judgment, with a loving gaze. And that’s what I can offer. As I have come to learned, no matter what lane you are occupying to do this dismantling white supremacy work, we all have our own place.
Siena: Thanks for listening to New Narratives: Justice for George Floyd. This special series is brought to you by Asian American Organizing Project, in collaboration with Buddhist Justice Reporter and support from the Minneapolis Foundation, the Mellon Foundation, and the Kofi Annan Institute for Global Citizenship at Macalester College. Featured in this episode was Chee Ming Xiong. See you next time!