We’re starting a special series here at New Narratives! In May 2020, the presence of Tou Thao, a Hmong police officer, at George Floyd’s murder raised important questions for the AAPI community. Now, almost a year later, as the trial of Derek Chauvin unfolds, your hosts Anya Steinberg and Siena Iwasaki Milbauer will be unpacking it from an Asian American lens. Today, we kick off the series by talking about what’s going on and hearing from some community members about what they expect as the trial enters its first week.
This series is made in collaboration with Buddhist Justice Reporter and the Kofi Annan Institute for Global Citizenship at Macalester College. Music by Small Million.
Anya: Hey everyone, it’s me, Anya. Welcome back to New Narratives. You know the drill. I’m the Storyteller Intern at Asian American Organizing Project, which is a nonpartisan nonprofit based out of St. Paul Minnesota, focused on supporting the Asian American Pacific Islander Community in the Twin Cities area. And I feel like I’m always saying that we’re going to hear something new today, but today we really are. This is the first episode of a special series we’re starting. And I’ve brought along someone else with me. Hey Siena!
Siena: Hi everyone, my name is Siena Iwasaki Milbauer, I use she/her pronouns, and I’m the Content Creator Intern at Asian American Organizing Project. Today, Anya and I are here to kick off a special podcasting series, covering the trial of the killers of George Floyd. Welcome to New Narratives: Justice for George Floyd.
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Anya: Siena and I are going to be tackling this together–sometimes I’ll be here, sometimes Siena will be here, and sometimes it’ll be both of us. This mini-series of episodes will all center around the trial of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin–the man who knelt on the neck of George Floyd for over 8 minutes while three other officers, Tou Thao, J. Alexander Kueng, and Thomas Lane stood by. Siena and I are going to be continuing conversations that began months ago when I first started this podcast and cries for justice were engulfing my hometown and the world.
Siena: On March 8, 2021, the jury selection for the trial of former Officer Derek Chauvin began, starting the trial process for Chauvin, Thao, Kueng, and Lane. This process is likely to last for months, and our communities will be witnessing and reacting to every step. Anya and I want to document and support that journey. We want to digest and unpack what we are about to experience with all of you. Throughout this series, Anya and I will be exploring this trial from an Asian American lens. We’ll be thinking about how faith intersects with organizing, what it means to have Black/Asian solidarity, and how we’ll rebuild our communities after the trial, no matter the outcome.
Anya: With that in mind, let’s go through some basics about the upcoming trials. And yes, you heard that right, there will be multiple trials.
Siena: First, former officer Derek Chauvin will be tried beginning this month, March 2021. The charges against Derek Chauvin are second-degree murder, third-degree murder, and second-degree manslaughter. Those charges carry a maximum prison sentence of 40, 25, and 10 years respectively. However, because former Officer Chauvin doesn’t have an official criminal history, he would be far more likely to end up with a sentence of around 12 years, if convicted.
Anya: Former officers Tou Thao, J. Alexander Kueng, and Thomas Lane will be tried all together. Their trial is currently scheduled to begin on August 23, 2021. And the current charges against them are aiding and abetting second-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. It is important to note that because the charges against Thao, Kueng, and Lane are tied to the case against Chauvin, if Chauvin is acquitted, that would make it incredibly difficult to convict the three of them.
Siena: As these trials are being held in Minneapolis, the eyes of the world will be on our city. Our justice system will be rightfully scrutinized and whatever the verdicts, the public reaction will be passionate and outspoken. With that in mind, I think one of the things I am personally struggling with is how pessimistic I feel about these trials. We know from past cases involving brutality and murders by police that getting a reasonably just verdict, where police are held accountable for their actions, that’s just not something that happens a lot. I’m finding it hard to want to put a lot of energy into following a trial that seems almost like a lost cause before it even begins. I called Anya up to see what she thought.
Anya: Hey Siena.
Siena: Hey Anya
Anya: Yeah, what do I think about this? I guess a lot of what I’m feeling. Um, I really relate to the sentiment of pessimism, but also honestly, mixed in with helplessness. Like I feel like there’s not a lot that I can do to affect the outcome. And it’s basically in someone else’s hands and if the trial doesn’t pan out, then I’ve got a lot of questions about how we even define justice in America.
Like, I think I saw the murder of George Floyd as for a lot of people really galvanizing. I mean, I was invited to more like, please be a part of our anti-racist book club than I’ve ever gotten invitations to in my entire life. People really started to care about racism, especially white people. And if justice can’t be brought for this crime, then like where, where does that leave that momentum? Like where do we go from there?
Siena: Yeah, I completely agree. I feel like going into these trials, I am also really filled with pessimism. And I think part of that is that I’m just sort of haunted by the results of the trials of killers of folks like Philando Castile and Jamar Clark and Breonna Taylor, and just countless others. Right. I’ve just seen time and time again, the same news story about cops getting off after blatantly blatantly murdering people. I feel like specifically. Looking at the perspective of our Asian communities, there’s some interesting stuff there in terms of how this trial might affect opportunities for black Asian solidarity.
Anya: Yeah. I have been thinking about that a lot too, because I feel like the terms like Black-Asian solidarity or yellow peril for Black lives have become so… they become really like buzzwords in recent month. Because of the presence of Tou Thao at George Floyd’s murder. I guess I’m afraid going forward about how a negative outcome of this trial could fracture Black, Asian communities even more than they already have been fractured by the presence of Tou Thao.
This trial seems like, kind of, I don’t want to say a breaking point because that sounds pessimistic, but it could be a point. Where our communities really have to ask ourselves, “How are we going to move forward together? And what do we need to do to make that happen?”
Siena: I do feel it’s really crucial that we keep our eyes on these trials, right, that we don’t just give up on them from the start. Every single one of us as a member of our communities has a role to play in keeping our justice system just, and that role is as active witnesses as participants in the form of protesting and petitioning and making our voices heard. At the same time, even in like the best case scenario, I don’t think that these trials are going to solve all of the systemic issues that have led to the murder of George Floyd and the murder of so many other black and brown people in this country by police. So while we want to dedicate some energy to monitoring these trials, to really holding our justice system accountable, I also think it’s really important that we’re not putting all of our eggs in one basket, right. That we’re also putting a lot of energy into systemic solutions and into making sure that no matter what happens during these trials, we still have opportunities and paths that we can take towards positive change in our community.
Anya: So basically, what we’re feeling right now is a lot of skepticism, but also a little bit of hope. To me this trial is going to be about bracing for impact. The murder of George Floyd brought so many tough things to the surface, like reckonings about anti-Blackness and realizations about the complicated mess that is being Asian American. We wanted to know, as the trial reignites some of these conversations, what are our AAPI community members thinking and feeling as Chauvin’s trial begins?
Haruka: I hope that George Floyd, his family, and his communities get justice, whatever that may look like. I hope that Asian Americans are involved in that fight and that we continue to be involved no matter what happens with the trial.
Tri: I think the longer we continue to treat policing as a moral crisis versus one that is driven by money and. Parasitic capitalism. We will continue to fail the communities of low-income, black and brown people. We can’t ask for nicer capitalism. We can’t ask for nicer versions of the police. We are fooling ourselves if we think that the ruling class won’t find new ways to exploit us while pretending that they care about being told by the outrage masses, that they are morally in the wrong and have been. For George Floyd’s family and for Brianna Taylor and countless other Black and brown and low-income peoples terrorized by the police, the ruling class that fund their vicious operations, we must reimagine the actions that we collectively take beyond the demand that the masters and the ruling class have a change of heart.
Ashley: Hi, my name is Ashley Yang from St. Paul Minnesota. I am hopeful. I’m hopeful that there’ll be change. That the officers who took the life of George Floyd would be charged. My fear obviously would be the, would be the, in the case that Derek Chauvin and the other officers are not held accountable. I fear for what would happen afterward. Just seeing the injustice and what that means for Black people in America or the world for people of color, for marginalized groups. I think that will say a lot in terms of meeting the white narrative and protecting white supremacy. And so that’s what I fear is that even though we’ve come so far, we are still very slow in terms of meeting progress and naming white supremacy and denouncing white supremacy, misogyny and so I think it’s an emotional time and a time in need for everyone to come together and look at what safety looks like.
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Anya: We’ll be back in a few weeks with an episode, looking at the role of faith communities and our own personal moral principles can play in our engagement with these trials in with broader social justice movements. I’m Anya Steinberg
Siena: and I’m Siena Iwasaki Milbauer. We’ll see you next episode.
Anya: Thanks for tuning in to New Narratives: Justice for George Floyd. This special series is brought to you by Asian American Organizing Project, in collaboration with Buddhist Justice Reporter, a project led by BIPOC Buddhists, looking to report on the police, criminal injustice, and the carceral state from a Buddhist lens. Also in partnership with the Mellon Foundation and the Kofi Annan Institute for Global Citizenship at Macalester College. Featured in this episode was Haruka, Tri, and Ashley. See you next time!